Beyond 1400: Kyle's Road to RUM VIII

Hi everyone,

Because I couldn't change the last thread title, I decided just to start up a new thread. So, here it is.

I guess I'll log yesterday's session:

I just went in, rolled for a long while, and did some very light squatting with a wider stance (something like eight reps with whatever Janis had on the bar--210). Janis watched my technique and gave me some feedback. It sounds like my back position looks better, but depth was inconsistent. Initially, I started with my toes pointed out, and that felt terrible. But when I moved to a toes-forward style, it felt very comfortable and not that different from my regular style (just more stable). That makes me believe that this won't be a terribly long project, or that my squat max will drop all that much from the transition. I'm thinking my stance width will be about the same as Nate's--shoulder-width, and no more.

After that, I did some face pulls, pulldowns, and rear delt flys and helped Janis out on her benching.

An idea to sit on. It might not be a bad idea to send videos of your wider stance squatting to some peers in the sport.

David Petersen wrote:

An idea to sit on. It might not be a bad idea to send videos of your wider stance squatting to some peers in the sport.

Yeah, Janis was insistent that I start filming these. I'm going to mess around for another session and then write an intro. cycle and start taking video to post on here.

I'm pretty sure you, Poage, and I all have more or less the same squat stance now.

All we need to do is get you in weightlifting shoes and Poage to start wrapping and we will be samesies.

Kyle Keough wrote:

David Petersen wrote:

An idea to sit on. It might not be a bad idea to send videos of your wider stance squatting to some peers in the sport.

Yeah, Janis was insistent that I start filming these. I'm going to mess around for another session and then write an intro. cycle and start taking video to post on here.

Can we be squat buddies the same way you and Grant were bench buddies?

Chris Anderson wrote:

I'm pretty sure you, Poage, and I all have more or less the same squat stance now.

All we need to do is get you in weightlifting shoes and Poage to start wrapping and we will be samesies.

Or you two could meet me in the middle and squat in sleeves and oly shoes.

You squat without wraps and weightlifting shoes.

I squat with wraps and weightlifting shoes.

Kyle squats with wraps and wrestling shoes.


I am clearly in the middle.

Since you're not competing for a year do you have a training plan for that whole period or will you continue to work on the lifts and find ad hoc solutions for problems as they arise? Maybe that's a bad way to put it but I'm wondering how you're going to plan out this year if you are obliged to divulge that information. . .

I don't think I said so already but congrats on your performance at RUM! Your third squat was incredible. How many places away from the WR total are you with 1405 at 148?

Places away might be kind of a weird way to look at it just because the differences between top three and top ten are so vast. Tony Conyers has the all time WR internationally at 1580   

I think Keo will be 9th after this meet though.

Nate's right; I'm 9th after this meet but still a very far cry from the WR. The WR at my weight class is admittedly very tough to break. I am a bit closer on the squat (524 versus a 565 WR) but still a good deal away.

My plan is to continue training in phases; the phases themselves will just change because of the long-layoff. I'm going to do a technical evaluation mesocycle, with lighter volume work supplemented by the occasional high-exertion set to maintain strength, followed by a long, programmed volume cycle in at least two of the lifts (probably the full smolov for squat and bench) with my new technique. After that, I'll do a quick deload, then something else.

Somewhere near the six-month mark, I'll run a peaking program and likely a mock meet for squat/bench/deadlift. From then on, it'll be meet-prep phases.

The way I see it, the stages will probably be something like 1.) technical evaluation/implementation, 2.) a volume macro, 3.) peaking/mock meet in the summer, 4.) another deload/accumulation phase, then 5.) phases geared again toward meet prep, probably culminating in another peaking cycle.

That plan probably won't hold--things always seem to change, good ideas turn out to be bad ones, and so on--but that's what I at least guess the next year for me will look like.

And the technical changes I'm trying to adopt are pretty simple: I'm just taking a "conventional" approach to all three lifts and trying to develop it over a span of six months. At that time, I'll test and assess the viability of my decision. The changes will include a narrower grip on my bench, a wider stance on my squat, and a more traditional sit-back-and-pull-with-a-neutral-spine deadlift.

The goal is just to determine whether my lifting has evolved as it has because I'm truly best suited for these techniques, or because it was a conscious choice and, in retrospect, might not be best for me. If I train hard and train regularly, I won't stand to lose much at all from my existing maxes if these choices don't turn out to be for the best. But if I do learn some valuable things about my technique, then it will be worth it, and there's no better time to experiment than this. I had been putting this off until milestones like 1400+ had been reached; now, I feel like it's time to start building a lifter that can total 1500+.

Also, consider that your squat stance is already a bit wider than, say, a year ago. You're not going from four-inch gap to Stan Efferding wide, so the transition honestly shouldn't take too long.

As for benching narrower...I mean, there are some outstanding benchers with your style of bench. I don't think you have to change much there, either.

I have a feeling your deadlift will just kind of work itself out after a few months. Getting your SI joint healthy will probably be highly beneficial for you. Just put it this way: you broke 1400 while deadlifting almost 40lb less than your PR. Just getting your deadlift back to what it has been for you can put you nearly to 1450.

Agreed on all counts. I think the squat stance needs to continue coming out, but the bench and the deadlift don't need to change. I just see this as a chance to make a small change to something more conventional, carry it out for a while, and see what happens with it. The good news is that if I decide after a while to ditch the new bench grip, I probably won't lose much of anything on my bench (because I'll still be training hard), and I'll have another six months or so to rebuild it.

I do think that the deadlift changes might be more beneficial in the long run--I've been using this rounded-back snapping style for so long that it's worth trying something new.

And I think 1450 is a good goal for next year's RUM. As you said, if my deadlift returns to form, I'm already almost there.

Stuff from this week:

Paused Bench: 225x10x5

Squat: 280x10x5

Notes: I'm currently working on modifying my technique and fixing my mistakes on all three lifts. Squat needs the most work; my technique on bench I think is pretty solid, but I'm going to train a slightly narrower grip to see if I can develop it further. Benching felt solid, and squatting was comfortable, but definitely a departure from what I'm accustomed to. I've widened my stance to about shoulder width, and I'm using Oly shoes to stay more upright. It looks more "normal" now, but I need to keep developing good positioning. It will probably be a long process of getting things figured out, but I'm excited to take the first step and do what I need to do in order to build my total.

reps for smolov

C'mon, log.

Paused Bench Press
227x17 (grip was too wide!)
227x18
254x10
w/ closer grip
221x10
227x10
227x10

Notes: Bench felt thick, solid, and tight. It's the one thing that has continued to feel really good post-meet. That's probably because I've kept up the exertion but really limited the volume, and perhaps the closer grip stuff will actually make me stronger. I went wild with my diet this weekend, so I figured that would help. Training isn't really too structured right now: the focus is just on keeping things light, getting the proscribed volume in, and making sure the bulk of the work is with a closer grip.

Holy mother of God, that volume...

Nathan Poage wrote:

Holy mother of God, that volume...

Well, benching a little narrower has really helped out my pecs and shoulders--I'm just not hurting from the same overuse injuries as frequently now, so I can push the reps a bit more if I want to. I definitely did more rep work than usual at this session though.

From yesterday:

Paused Bench Press (using the narrower grip)
245x10
245x7 (longer pauses)
245x7 (two-sec. pauses)

Face Pulls, four sets

Tricep Pushdowns, four sets

Bicep Curls, three sets

Notes: Benchy is really strong right now, but I'm coming off a multi-week surplus, so that's sort of to be expected. I might go for 305x2 tomorrow to try and break a 2RM before my diet has too much time to return to form. It's times like this that make me realize I'd probably be mid-300s as a 165 in not too much time, but then I just suppress that feel and go back on my diet.

165 pls

KevinAlvy wrote:

165 pls

Never.