KevinAlvy's Training Log

KevinAlvy wrote:

Mobility Work W/ Bar


DB Row
50 lbs 1x50


Face Pulls
3x35


Hammer Curls
45 2x


Notes: very brief

Good stuff.

KevinAlvy wrote:

KKeough wrote:

Very nice! I didn't realize that. You've got a lot of improving left in you.

And after receiving a link to a certain bodybuilding.com post, I couldn't help but see that you've got people in your log telling you you're overtraining. And in my opinion, you're not; you might have to train smarter, but you can train smarter AND harder.

Yeah I agree. These guys have been following me for close to two years and I think they are half right. They are probably citing my workouts in the spring semester when I squatted/deadlifted and OHP'd all 3x a week while working FT and school FT. That's what lead me to my injuries and my lifts have pretty much stalled at that point on.

As long as I am diligent enough to eat like I used to and do the things external to lifting, I can start increasing my work capacity again. Right now the plan is to build on hypertrophy/work capacity/pain tolerance all through my assistance work, which I think will allow my injuries to heal. The next block I will start ramping the volume with the competition lifts again and hopefully get back into some oly lifting

There are two ways, in my opinion, in which you can interpret your injury. One is that you were overtraining by performing these moments too frequently. The other is that you were undertraining by neglecting the necessary accessory work that might have kept you healthy. My belief is that the truth probably falls somewhere in the middle, but closer to the "undertraining" side of it. I think you're now armed with a more intelligent--or, dare I say, 'optimal'--way of training.

I love me some optimization

Paused Narrow Incline
Warmups
270x3


Narrow Feet up Flat
Warmups
235x10


Dips
4x burnout


Flat DB Flyes
3x20


Skullcrushers
Warmups
115x10

High Bar Squat
Warmups
405x3


Lunges
Warmups
235x8


RH
5x15


Vertical Hammer Pulldown
Warmups
185 2x20


Superset
Single Arm Facepulls 3x12
Curls 3x burnout


DB Row
65 1x40


Notes: Back felt delicate so I shut it down. I haven't done any vertical pulls because of my pec, happy this didn't cause any pain

Low DB Incline
50 2x20
60x20
70x20


Dips
4x20


Cheat Raises
40 2x15


Single Arm Pressdown
4x15


Delt/Pec Prehab
lotsxlots

High Bar Squat
Warmups
465x3


RH
3x20


Leg Press
Warmups
1 rowx20


Chest Supported Row
180 3x20


Decline Partial Situps
70 2x15


Facepulls]
3x25


Preacher Curls
2x

High Bar Squat
Warmups
495x1


Tng Bench
Warmups
345x2


Bulgarian Split Squats
Warmups
205x5


Track Work
Lunges down, walk back
Side step down and back
Backwards down and back


Depth Jumps
4x6


Rope Pressdowns
3x25

Narrow Incline Pause
Warmups
280x3


Feet Up Narrow
Warmups
235x10


Dips
5x burnout


Superset
Front Raises 2x15
Incline Flyes 2x15


One Arm Pressdown
1x burnout

Do you normally do feet-up pressing? I know Ben Rice does this from time to time on his make-the-main-lifts-into-accessory-work days. I bet I floor-press with my legs flat for the same reason.

High Bar Squat
Warmups
405x8


Pendlay Rows
Warmups
185 3x8


Superset
RH 2x20
Rear Flyes 2x20


Hammer Pulldown
Warmups
230x8


Facepulls
Warmups
stack x 10
idk x 30


Notes: Squats technique was bad, but I am just happy my back wasn't hurting

KKeough wrote:

Do you normally do feet-up pressing? I know Ben Rice does this from time to time on his make-the-main-lifts-into-accessory-work days. I bet I floor-press with my legs flat for the same reason.

I am just experimenting some theories. I've seen several people on other forums have success with the feet up stuff.

I think floor pressing failed me because it didn't increase my strength off the chest, which I believe is my weakness. With my feet up I am increasing my rom in hopes of carrying over to strength off the chest. Sort of the same way a deficit deadlift might increase strength off the floor

Idk if I will use it moving forward though

My recommendation would be to mix in some sub-maximal work with your elbows properly tucked. I think a lot of your injury issues are related to excessive elbow-flare as your technique breaks down, and I think training down to the lowest common denominator for a while--using the bench press also as an accessory movement and focusing on good elbow position--would be more beneficial than training other pressing movements.

KKeough wrote:

My recommendation would be to mix in some sub-maximal work with your elbows properly tucked. I think a lot of your injury issues are related to excessive elbow-flare as your technique breaks down, and I think training down to the lowest common denominator for a while--using the bench press also as an accessory movement and focusing on good elbow position--would be more beneficial than training other pressing movements.

hmmm where to start with this...

I'll be seeing a pt over break, I hope he can give me some insights and give me a diagnosis.

I will preface this next part with the fact I can be a very stubborn person, and my stubbornness might be holding me back from modifying my technique. But my honest opinion is that actively tucking elbows on the bench press is not proper technique. I don't believe that the lats can be "activated" and somehow they can become a primary mover as Louie would argue. I think that the whole notion of tucking comes from geared benching, when a person has to tuck to touch.

I will recognize that my style causes more strain on my pec tendons than a tucked approach would, but I think that stress is also moving the bar. It's possible that a tucked approach will allow me to bench more frequently, but that is speculation. I would like to continue benching with "flared" elbows, but if I continue to strain, I'll look for alternatives.

Moving forward I will be staying sub maximal to build a better base, and avoid peaking the bench press in general.

Regardless of if they are prime movers or not, tucking still puts less stress on the pec and shoulder. I keep my elbows pretty much in the same exact position throughout the entire movement; I am fairly tucked but I don't do a tuck-flare movement like some do.

Chris Anderson wrote:

Regardless of if they are prime movers or not, tucking still puts less stress on the pec and shoulder. I keep my elbows pretty much in the same exact position throughout the entire movement; I am fairly tucked but I don't do a tuck-flare movement like some do.

My argument would be why in the world would you want to take stress off the chest and delts, those are the most important parts of the bench press. I've never had delt problems from bench though, so I might not know that feel

Well, it's a continuum- there is a (very rough) inverse relationship between stress on the pecs and the stress on the triceps. While I think that "rowing the bar into you" is a load of shit for raw lifters, the lats are still very important, and most raw lifters will feel that tucking hard puts the lats in a better position to stabilize the trunk and provide a base of support.

Personally, I know that letting my elbows flare a whole lot is going to end up with me feeling like shit after the set, even if it doesn't hurt me- I just don't like how it feels, and I don't think it's to my advantage. The only time I really tend to flare a lot is when I'm struggling through a last rep, in which I have to slowly flare to get through a sticking point.

Chris Anderson wrote:

Well, it's a continuum- there is a (very rough) inverse relationship between stress on the pecs and the stress on the triceps. While I think that "rowing the bar into you" is a load of shit for raw lifters, the lats are still very important, and most raw lifters will feel that tucking hard puts the lats in a better position to stabilize the trunk and provide a base of support.

I am not sure how tucking accomplishes this. It sounds like you are just flexing/opening up your lats

Quote :

Personally, I know that letting my elbows flare a whole lot is going to end up with me feeling like shit after the set, even if it doesn't hurt me- I just don't like how it feels, and I don't think it's to my advantage.

I don't mean to advocate either type. I think it comes down to experimenting and what is a more natural way of pressing.

Quote :

The only time I really tend to flare a lot is when I'm struggling through a last rep, in which I have to slowly flare to get through a sticking point.

While you might see this as a form breakdown, I see this as your optimal way of pressing in the short term. It's just a difference of opinion

KevinAlvy wrote:

KKeough wrote:

My recommendation would be to mix in some sub-maximal work with your elbows properly tucked. I think a lot of your injury issues are related to excessive elbow-flare as your technique breaks down, and I think training down to the lowest common denominator for a while--using the bench press also as an accessory movement and focusing on good elbow position--would be more beneficial than training other pressing movements.

hmmm where to start with this...

I'll be seeing a pt over break, I hope he can give me some insights and give me a diagnosis.

I will preface this next part with the fact I can be a very stubborn person, and my stubbornness might be holding me back from modifying my technique. But my honest opinion is that actively tucking elbows on the bench press is not proper technique. I don't believe that the lats can be "activated" and somehow they can become a primary mover as Louie would argue. I think that the whole notion of tucking comes from geared benching, when a person has to tuck to touch.

I will recognize that my style causes more strain on my pec tendons than a tucked approach would, but I think that stress is also moving the bar. It's possible that a tucked approach will allow me to bench more frequently, but that is speculation. I would like to continue benching with "flared" elbows, but if I continue to strain, I'll look for alternatives.

Moving forward I will be staying sub maximal to build a better base, and avoid peaking the bench press in general.

I think you're misinterpreting me. Keep benching with your normal technique for as long as you can for your work sets, but do additional work--more bench pressing as accessory work--with your elbows better tucked. This is how I prefer to fix technique issues, because you can continue to maintain your strength without having to deload too greatly, and at the same time you can train down to the lowest common denominator with additional work.

Doing, after your heavy benching, a number of fairly easy (70-80% for 2-4 reps) sets with good elbow position will probably do more for you than any press variations at this point. The hope is that this sub-maximal work eventually carries over to your heavy work sets and allows you to start getting your elbows in better position on max attempts.

You're right that the cult of over-tucking, like the cult of sitting-back, is perpetuated by lifters who have taken advice for geared lifting out of context and exaggerated its importance, but you're also right in saying you might be stubborn here. Your elbow-flare is pretty severe, and you'll likely have to fix it at some point.

That's just my opinion though, and I've been successful at times when I've resisted changing my technique on a lift just because of one issue. So, stubbornness isn't always a bad thing, and if you can develop a 400-lb. bench with your style, I will give you a slow clap.

You said your weakness is off the chest right? I think that would probably be best remedied by lat recruitment at the bottom position rather then trying to increase the work done by your pecs, especially given your history of pec strains. Contrary to what most people think, the lats are internal rotators and can contribute a good deal to pressing strength.
Yeah, you might have Alexander Karelin pecs after a while, but they're better than strained pecs and shoulder problems.

High Bar Squat
Warmups
405x10


Deadlift
Warmups
555x0 slipped out of my hand when I broke the floor


T Bar Rows
4x10


Superset
Preacher Curls 3x10
Seated Shrugs 3x10


Superset
Facepulls 3x20
45 degree back raises w/ 25lb hat 3x10


Seated Crunch Machins
3x20


Superset
Cable Obliques 4x10
Bodypulls 4x10


Neck and Rear Delt flyes


Notes: The bar I used to deadlift had nonexistent knurling and slipped immediately. I am pretty exhausted from cramming all week. Couldn't even get my heart rate above baseline with ammonia

KKeough wrote:

I think you're misinterpreting me. Keep benching with your normal technique for as long as you can for your work sets, but do additional work--more bench pressing as accessory work--with your elbows better tucked. This is how I prefer to fix technique issues, because you can continue to maintain your strength without having to deload too greatly, and at the same time you can train down to the lowest common denominator with additional work.

Doing, after your heavy benching, a number of fairly easy (70-80% for 2-4 reps) sets with good elbow position will probably do more for you than any press variations at this point. The hope is that this sub-maximal work eventually carries over to your heavy work sets and allows you to start getting your elbows in better position on max attempts.

You're right that the cult of over-tucking, like the cult of sitting-back, is perpetuated by lifters who have taken advice for geared lifting out of context and exaggerated its importance, but you're also right in saying you might be stubborn here. Your elbow-flare is pretty severe, and you'll likely have to fix it at some point.

That's just my opinion though, and I've been successful at times when I've resisted changing my technique on a lift just because of one issue. So, stubbornness isn't always a bad thing, and if you can develop a 400-lb. bench with your style, I will give you a slow clap.

I'll keep that in mind, thanks Kyle

Nathan Poage wrote:

You said your weakness is off the chest right? I think that would probably be best remedied by lat recruitment at the bottom position rather then trying to increase the work done by your pecs, especially given your history of pec strains. Contrary to what most people think, the lats are internal rotators and can contribute a good deal to pressing strength.
Yeah, you might have Alexander Karelin pecs after a while, but they're better than strained pecs and shoulder problems.

eggs plain how lats can be a mover in the bench press

only way I can think of is if they create a stronger stretch reflex, but I don't see why tucking is necessary for that

I saw the squats on youtube--nice work. It's good to see you're able to do some squatting again. Despite the shit I constantly give you, I'm always rooting for you to figure it all out and come back stronger.

KKeough wrote:

I saw the squats on youtube--nice work. It's good to see you're able to do some squatting again. Despite the shit I constantly give you, I'm always rooting for you to figure it all out and come back stronger.

I know. I think everyone has given each other a fair amount of criticism, but I think everyone means well

no whey



i h8 u guise




die

Chris Anderson wrote:

no whey

i h8 u guise

die

only 300lb bench presses ITT, sorry brah

brb maxing out in training because i dont believe in myself